Pelosi Shrugs off Alcatraz as Possible Terror Detention Facility

[Totamo4]

Republicans opposing an Obama administration order to close Guantanamo Bay prison facility within a year suggest sending terror detainees to House Speaker Pelosi's district. Read more at...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/01/25/pelosi-shrugs-alcatraz-p...

All I gotta say is if the "angry" Americans don't get them...the great whites will...

[J M A]

The funny part about all this is every Democrat wanted Gitmo shut down. No one yet has an answer as to what we are going to do with all of these America hating, very dangerous men. And it appears this was a statement against Pel-loud-si more than an overly serious idea. No one wants them in their district, yet everyone wants it shut down.

By the way, prepare to be ripped on for using foxnews as a source, try to use something more liberal like CNN to keep all the "leftists" happy.

[Zannie]

Don't bother putting leftists in quotes, JMA. It's not necessary. I am a progressive, democrat, capitalist who is left of center. So call me a leftist if you want. I'll wear that name with pride. BTW I think the Fox article was concise and to the point. As I've said, I read and listen to a variety of sources. Have you checked out MSNBC lately. I could just bet that you've got a child-proof lock on anything that challenges your thinking.
Pel LOUD ski? I can barely hear the woman, she speaks so softly and stutters so much. If you're going to make up names could they at least fit the person you're mocking?

[J M A]

alex - why do you assume I was talking about you. I don't ever remember you criticizing an article I have posted based on the source. However, there are some people that will accept nothing not from an all liberal source.

Yes I watch CNN more than anything, but commonly check in on FoxNews, for some reason (unintnetionally) I rarely check MSNBC. I do not watch bill O as I find him to be obnoxious most of the time. I did like him attacking the Red Cross after 9/11 though, he had very valid points.

Pe -LOUD -si was more of a character trait than actual literally loud. I don't like her left of left nut-job ways. I think there are right wing people the same way. When these overpaid politicain learn to compromise we won't have this cycle of Democrats for a few terms to balance the economy and the Republicans for a few terms to keep us safe. It is a vicious cycle and someday these clowns will figure it out, at least I hope/

Anyway alex, that was not an attack on you, I know where you stand and that you are a fair minded tree hugger:)

[Zannie]

Well ok then....:) I'm sure we can agree to disagree on many issues. So many conservatives find all "mainstream media" to be leftist that it's difficult not to respond when it appears that all of you believe this way. I find Bill O to be obnoxious as well and I don't know if you had ever listened to Randi Rhodes, but she is another one: a female version of rush limbaugh for the left.

Just as you find Pelosi to be a "left nut-job" many of us find some of your cherished politicians to be "right-wing" nut jobs. I am hoping that this administration will remain true to it's goals while at least looking at and trying to incorporate more conservative ideology into it's agenda.

I do think that you underestimate us liberals when it comes to keeping America safe. My gut reaction is very hawkish even though I'm a liberal. We need to stop slicing and dicing people along strict left-right lines. Many of us didn't want Gitmo shut down. We just wanted the Geneva Convention and the Army Field Manual followed. It wasn't and I think that hurt our security in the long run. As I've said before and you have said as well, there are many areas where we can meet in the middle.

I'm glad you realize that I'm proud to be a tree hugger. Someone has to protect all those ferns you so ruthlessly would eradicate (I'm kidding here.)

[Zannie]

I'll read Alinsky again if you promise to pick up a copy of The Dark Side or Disaster Capitalism. ;)

[Zannie]

Hi Mary,

Just wanted to let you know I reacquainted myself with Alinsky. It seems to me that most of the politicians and entertainment “news” personalities in the world use some of his tactics. Think about Rush Limbaugh, for instance. He abides by rules 1 and 2 on every broadcast. He pretends to be “god’s gift to the free world,” allowing people to believe he has waaaay more power than he actually does. He stays well within the experience of his base, presenting only views based upon what he perceives to be their backgrounds and interpretation of events.

Number 5: Oh yeah: Everyday he makes up names to ridicule people he doesn’t agree with. He even builds upon the xenophobic tendencies of his audience by mocking the way certain minority groups talk. Number 6: Yep. Couch your information in a manner that your people will enjoy. And your famous rule #13? Just think about how often he relies on this tactic. Only in rush's case I would substitute the word "depersonalize" for personalize.

Remember, I’m not just picking on Rush. He was just the first example I thought of when I read through Alinsky’s list of power tactics. I’m sure whether they’ve read Alinsky or not, most of the power hitters in politics are aware of these tactics and use them. Having been in the field of advertising, I know that many of these tactics are the same ones used to sell products. You use the psychology of persuasion and pressure to achieve your goal.

Rules for Power Tactics:

1. Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.
2. Never go outside the experience of your people.
3. Whenever possible, go outside of the experience of the enemy.
4. Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules.
5. Ridicule is man's most potent weapon.
6. A good tactic is one that your people enjoy.
7. A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.
8. Keep the pressure on with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose.
9. The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.
10. The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.
11. If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside.
12. The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.
13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.

Anyway, I always enjoy hearing your views. Let me know how you think the Obama administration uses these tactics. I’d be interested in hearing from you again.

[J M A]

Thank You

[Zannie]

Oh yeah, wave the flag. I've purposely said nothing about the "elephant in the room," because I knew it would be too inflammatory. But to just say shoot them or send them home is ridiculous. Evidently a majority of Americans feel the same way, that we are a nation of laws. Of course, most of the prisoners in gitmo are evil M**********rs, but we are better than this. They should have been treated as terrorists (criminals that would have been interrogated, prosecuted and either put to death or been released in an American court of law) or treated as enemy soldiers - whether they are wearing a uniform or not - and faced a military tribunal. What we had going on was some bastardization of the total process of law. As Cheney so aptly put it, we used "the dark side." And now what??? Good luck with your flag waving.

[Totamo4]

You're dreaming Empty...

Right...they were defending their homelands...most of these knuckleheads we were picking up out of Afghanistan were foriegn fighters claiming to be dirt farmers. Funny my grandparents were farmers...but they didn't possess IED making material or heroin.

If you're refering to OIF...Even a lot of the males we were picking up out of southern Iraq weren't even Iraqis. How do we know this? They got the crap kicked out of them within minutes of being placed in the Iraqi cells.

Let them hate us...they are jealous of your way of life.

There's not a country in this world that is completely self sufficient and "independant".

Why stay out of other countries business? That's what we did for so long against the Germans...and we paid heavily for that too.

Just so you know...Gitmo is one of the more "comfortable" detention facilities. Why close it down and send them to a real dump?

[John Hilborn]

We never asked for terrorists to attack us on 9/11. When that happened, it became our fight and our business. True our borders need to be tightened and we need stricter immigration laws (something that George W. was clearly missing the mark on). As far as the terrorists at Gitmo go, they need to be tried for war crimes as enemy cabatants. The worse thing that could happen is to turn them lose as was the case with some of them earlier on and they ended up doing more homicide bombing in the world. They are all hellbent on killing anyone who is not Islamic, period. We could only hope that if they were to go to prison here in the states, that inmates will take care of them once and for all.

[Interested Observer]

I agree, we really need to either cut bait or fish with these guys. I realize that we (the public) don't have all the information about these prisoners for security reasons and I'm okay with that, but GITMO has become such a political issue both here and in the Muslim world that the simple fact it exists has become the problem.

Prediction: A few of them get public trials but most get quietly shipped off to less public detention facilities or countries where the rules don't apply and they're never heard from again.

[J M A]

New York State prison in with the rest of the prisons population.